This is Scary

[Vipor]

It´s kinda remarkable that the world leading nation U.S.A. doesn´t have a functional health care system for all humans in place. They have slept a long time.

I do believe you are not totally correct on that there statement.   Health Ins. or not if you have a life threatening injury and walk into any ER in the USA, they are bound by law to help save your life. Now this is not to say that our health ins. is what it should be or needs to be. But rest assured we do not just let people die because they (for whatever reason) are not fortunate enough to own a health ins plan.

Not sure I understand your point on that...

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

Thought so Vipor and thanks for your reply.

So this means medical support/treatment is ´free´ for ´aliens´ when they have a life threatening injury and going to an emergency room ? For how long ? Until their life is saved for now ?

And if it´s free, who pays it anyway ?

....doesn´t have a functional health care system for all humans in place.

...which means until their life isn´t threatened, they don´t get any medicine at all, when sick ?

[H@wk]

Charity funds set up by each State.

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

Charity funds set up by each State.

For the ER treatment only or also for medical therapies afterwards and/or beforehand ?

[H@wk]

Charity funds set up by each State.

For the ER treatment only or also for medical therapies afterwards and/or beforehand ?

There are charitable organizations for all that you ask.

Donations from people, institutions and companies make these funds available to the unfortunate. This is why we the people have a choice and a say in what goes on and do not like government interference. The more the government becomes involved the more we become slaves to the government.

This is what this country is built on, freedom to choose, freedom to live by, peoples decisions, not the government.  

Those that were elected in Washington were elected to serve the people, it seems that those elected officials feel that we work for them, here is where the trouble starts and trouble grows by the day.

Washington has to be purged of these types of elected officials and the peoples voice will be heard, not dictated by our government.

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

OK, I understand. I also find it rather bad, when the government is involved in too many departments, as I think this is the attitude of all humans being. Though sometimes it´s good, when the government gets involved.


Do I understand you right ? Does it mean everyone has the same access to medicines and medical treatment already anyway ?

So, when you´d be in the boots of an ´alien´, would you think the current health care system, build on private insurance plans for the ´wealthy´ and charity funds for the ´poor´is sufficient and satisfying ? Would you like to live and to be treatened in such a way ? Dependent to donations and the good will of others ?

[H@wk]

I believe your referring to Aliens as Illegal Immigrants, correct me if I'm wrong.

I feel I understand what your referring to and all I can say at this point is, make yourself legal and you benefit from the system, keep yourself illegal then suffer the consequences.

If I were in there boots I would do everything I could to make it right.

Everyone who is legally here has the right to choose, are you asking if the ones that have more money then others get special health care and benefit more so?

I believe the opportunity lies amongst each of us on how bad we want to take care of each ones needs, why should anything be hand fed to anyone except of course for the bonafide unfortunate ones that really prove they need it, that is when the compassionate people of this country step in and take care of them or other countries but then again other countries is a whole different topic.

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

I believe your referring to Aliens as Illegal Immigrants, correct me if I'm wrong.

The humans you call ´aliens´, I think means illegal immigrants and other disadvantaged groups...

I feel I understand what your referring to and all I can say at this point is, make yourself legal and you benefit from the system, keep yourself illegal then suffer the consequences.

If I were in there boots I would do everything I could to make it right.

I knew you´d say that and somehow I do agree just not in regard to health care.

Everyone who is legally here has the right to choose, are you asking if the ones that have more money then others get special health care and benefit more so?

I believe the opportunity lies amongst each of us on how bad we want to take care of each ones needs, why should anything be hand fed to anyone except of course for the bonafide unfortunate ones that really prove they need it, that is when the compassionate people of this country step in and take care of them or other countries but then again other countries is a whole different topic.

And there I don´t agree in some details. Not everything should be hand fed, I agree. But the right and access for - and to health care, medicines and medical treatment is essential, a ´basic need´ and should be equal for everyone.

Now I don´t say, everyone needs the luxury of a single room in a hospital and not everyone needs the most expensive available medicine, when there is cheaper medicine available, doing the same job. Not everyone needs to have a TV and a radio - service available in a hospital. This is all, what you as owner of a private insurance can have in addition.

What I talk about is a ´primary health care´ for all. When you come to Germany, no matter if legal or not, regardless your origin, religion, skin-colour or credit, you´ll get at least such a primary health care and it´s paid by all of us. Such a primary health care doesn´t only step in when you have a life threatening injury but also contains therapies beforehand and afterwards. So whenever you feel sick, you can visit a doctor and will receive help. Compared to the US it sounds like the garden of Eden somehow, though its simply humanity ?

[H@wk]

Quote from: Rb_Tullamore-Dew on August 18, 2009, 10:41:09 AM
The humans you call ´aliens´, I think means illegal immigrants and other disadvantaged groups...

If this is the case then it goes far beyond our borders, how about a world health plan for all disadvantaged countries?

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

Come on Hawk, you know what I mean. At the end it´s an inner political problem for all countries at first.

When I say disadvantaged groups, I mean, apart from ´aliens´ for example:

 -

some girl who can't keep her legs closed!  

 -

Girl X who has 8 babies out of wedlock and supply for the well being of her children

 A legal citizen, I´d think. So when you say:

...make yourself legal and you benefit from the system, keep yourself illegal then suffer the consequences.

...it isn´t quite right because even legals have to suffer some consequences ?

[H@wk]

Yes, I know what your getting at,

I also know the German Health Care system works and has been in existence a long time.

Does the German system provide for illegals?

Are you making a comparison to your country?

Are you trying to figure out what is best for all?

Just curious.

[Vipor]

What I talk about is a ´primary health care´ for all. When you come to Germany, no matter if legal or not, regardless your origin, religion, skin-colour or credit, you´ll get at least such a primary health care and it´s paid by all of us. Such a primary health care doesn´t only step in when you have a life threatening injury but also contains therapies beforehand and afterwards. So whenever you feel sick, you can visit a doctor and will receive help. Compared to the US it sounds like the garden of Eden somehow, though its simply humanity

Tulla, when I read this my first thought is that I am wondering if Germany gets bombarded with people from other nations coming across the border to take advantage of the health care system you have? Heck, If I had an illness or medical problem and could come there and basically get it for free (for feee as the people who live in Germany are paying for it if I understand you correctly) then I would be there in a heartbeat given the medical services themselves are up to or above standard.

Now another question, do you have tons of people coming into Germany now? (For whatever reason as well as for medical attention.)

Second, If the USA isn't being fair to illegal immagrants in the medical/health field, why are they coming to the USA in the first place? Surely the country they are coming from has a better health plan and or way of life than the poor corrupt stinking USA. Right?

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

I´ll try to answer your questions satisfying:

Germany is a rather wealthy, western industry country with a democracy, rather more liberal than the USA. Our implemented social systems do attract of course immigrants from all over the world, legals and illegals. We have laws in place to deport illegal immigrants. There are immigrants who come to Germany for very different reasons. Though there are other groups, we basically differ between 2 bigger groups:

1. political refugees looking for protection---> if this is accepted, they´re allowed to stay

2.  politico-economical refugees looking for better opportunities---> they´re not allowed to stay and will be deported, when they get caught. But it can last until it´s decided whether they´re illegal or not and various applications have to be accepted/ signed by the responsible officials. FIFO (first in, first out). Until then they´re allowed to stay in Germany and will even get an   accommodation and receiving welfare, all payed by the tax-payer and of course health care.

If you ask if we´re getting ´bombarded´ by such refugees in the same way, as the USA, we have to compare both countries: the USA is a huge country, Germany comparably little. Therefore the USA has longer borderlines, harder to protect than Germany´s shorter borderlines. (also a question of the amount of frontier-defense on duty, which is also a question of tax-money)

On the other hand side, Germany hasn´t such a huge population and therefore less of tax-payers----> less of tax-money. There are surely official statistics available showing the amount of refugees, compared to the available tax-money spent on them.

But if you ask, if Germany is more wealthy than the USA, in order to be capable to afford such a system, I´d say ´NO´ immediately. But then again we´ll have to go into politics again, in order to find out in which departments our tax-money gets wasted. e.g. Germany doesn´t spend that much money for leading wars, even though we are very active on military grounds recently too. But this is another very sensitive topic.

Are you making a comparison to your country?

Are you trying to figure out what is best for all?

Yes. I don´t have any prejudices because you - each single poster- are not responsible for a situation which has been developed over decades or even centuries. A situation you got used to and don´t see the need to change. A situation not the commies, nor the liberals can be blamed for and if at all,  both of them. So we should take away this problem (if it is one and I got the impression it is, because there is a controversy) from politics and political preferences and should use our common sense to shed a better light and understanding on it.

[Rb_Tullamore-Dew]

Second, If the USA isn't being fair to illegal immagrants in the medical/health field, why are they coming to the USA in the first place? Surely the country they are coming from has a better health plan and or way of life than the poor corrupt stinking USA. Right?

This is a somewhat ´narrowminded´view/ question, Vipor. (no offense m8)

Of course there will be always those living in poor countries, with chaotic political circumstances or even dictatorships etc. pp. looking for better opportunities and more ´freedom´.

I´d think even an argentinian has better opportunities in the USA (hell, even a german has, in certain regards), than at home in Argentina, despite the fact Argentinas health care system seems to be somewhat better ´structured´. I don´t think they come because of your health care system in the very first place. I think it goes along with the proverb: A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Or: ´Who wants to have this, has to accept this as well´. It´s a compromise.

[H@wk]

"I don´t think they come because of your health care system in the very first place."

Tulla,

Ask the Canadians about that, they come to the USA for better Health care, I know quite a few.