Well, where to start ?
My views on the topic, I did express on the same thread @ the UK-boards already.
http://www.airattack.co.uk/portal/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33030&p=355185#p355185So forgive me, if I post OT here and having rather an open dialogue with shrapnel. But of course it belongs somehow to the topic.
At first let me say, that I´m not here to hurt anyones feelings or pride, (again
) though I´m quite sure, I will. (once again
)
As if each single theme isn´t difficult enough on its own, it becomes really difficult, when religions mix up with politics. It´s why I really only wanted to comment on your ´paintbrush´of the Islam, from your very first post on this topic. Your second and third post did calm me down though.
But I wouldn´t be the one I am known as, if I wouldn´t take the opportunity to reply very detailed on your very detailed explanation, in order to illustrate where our views do match (actually in many) and where not. After all, everyone seems to be keenly looking for similarities and acceptance. I´m one of yours.
And before I start I have to apologize in advance for doing something, which I consider to be a very bad habit of someone we know as Leeballz. The habit to quote and reply to each single sentence or at least each single paragraph of your post. I want to make sure we don´t misunderstand each other and there is no ´general gist´ of your post I could reply to with a ´one-liner´.
Terrorism:
Ah well....hmmm....
I think placing bombs in trash cans or cars to kill innocent people is very bad and very cowardly. I think we all do think the same about such mean attacks. I got taught not to use a weapon (as if I ever had any), when an attacker attacks with blank fists only.
The honorable way of fighting, you know. Fighting on an equal basic position. (tbh. I never fought a fight with anything else than my fists and since I was a seaman, you may can imagine, that I used them alot. Though I really having not the boxer kind of a figure. I always prefered the diplomatic way. But hey, you all know what it means to have a big ego, eh ? :D)
Are wars (any war) honorable ways of fighting ? There are weapons. We all know about the honorable duells in the wild west (Pull !!!) or even more honorable in Great Britain and France, when they used to use pistols with only a single shot. Even a knife-fight or a sword-fight is a fight on an equal basic position, when it comes to weapons.
Those times are long gone. They use bombs today. (dropped from planes or placed in trash cans or cars with a time fuze even). They use aircraft carriers these days, cruise missiles and cluster bombs. Phosphor bombs and nukes even. And what not....
Fair ? Hell no. Cowardly ? Of course and highly efficient.
Who uses such weapons ? (can we call them weapons of mass destruction already ?)
Talking about ´Terrorism´. erm....well yes. What exactly is terrorism ? Can you tell me ?
To bomb a town and causing hundreds and thousands of civilian death´ ? Ah OK, that´s called ´collateral damage´nowadays. We´re the good boys, you know ? The other ones, who - in the absence of more efficient weapons and technology - placing bombs in cars or hijacking passenger-planes and flying them straight into skyscrapers....they´re the bad ones. A couple decades ago they also were the good boys. At a time when we called them ´freedom-fighters´ and armed them against our common enemy. You know the story. I will stop here.
Terrorism really is a bad thing. They´re working for our side as well. We only call them ´special forces´. They´re the good boys, you know ?
Call me anti-american, anti-british, anti-german, anti - ISAF and anti- what not. I am, really. God knows I´m anti. Anti war, anti any form of physical aggression. Please go away with your silly war against terrorism. There is none. If you want to know more, simply click the link in my signature, wait a minute for the download and suck the pdf-file. Read it (if you haven´t already) and you´ll know what all the war against terrorism is about.
I hate terrorism. In the same way as you do and even more.
Back in the days, when I was young and there was a fight on the schoolyard, I was always for the weaker guys. Unfortunately they lost the fights in most cases and I was hoping, one day they could call for satisfaction (in a honorable way, though).
Oh what a pitty. We finally found a victim, who strikes back. And in such a mean way, even. They´re so bad. Who are they anyway ? They´re wearing strange clothes and preaching strange prayers to a god, they call ´Allah´.
Ah yes, I heard they call it a ´holy war´. JIHAD !!! Ah............so perhaps they think, God is rather with them, than with us ? Ah well, it´s their god. So perhaps they think their god is stronger than ours ? Everything is clear now. It´s the religion. Their religion....
They call it Islam. It must be a really bad religion. I don´t know much about the Islam but I´ve read something about it on the internet. And I´ve seen movies on youtube. Hell, they behead humans. Innocent foreigners even. How barbaric !!!
Well, you know how the mobbing works ?
Of course there is probably a handful of good islamists. And most of them living in the U.S. anyway (of course). BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE 1.5 BILLION MUSLIMS WORLDWIDE ARE THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.
You haven´t said that, shrapnel. I know. Not the people are bad, only the religion they believe in. And nobody ever said all germans are nazis (:0), anyone ?
But then there are our personal experiences.....
I think you should listen to Joan Baez more, Sir.
And finally: if the WTC - attacks have been really done by islamic extremists (which is the public opinion), what I doubt, it is really tasteless and highly annoying to let them build a mosque there. I am with you. Period !
I just see the WTC attacks itself with totally different eyes, than (most of) you. Even if it were islamic extremists it was their despaired attempt to defend ´their´ freedom. Even if not in a honorable way. It´s these days, you know. Collateral damage, wrong time/ wrong place and all that.
P.S. Like you I´ve spent many years of my life in the states around the persian gulf and in arabic countries in north - and east africa. I made different experiences. But then again, I wasn´t there as a serviceman. I can slightly imagine why foreign servicemen with sweets in their pockets, who burned my neighbours house the other day, are probably not that welcome.
P.P.S. and all that without a single quote ?
If I have to apology tomorrow: It´s late and I´m totally drunk.
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